TV Interview – “Lights Out” Star Holt McCallany and Executive Producer Warren Leight Part I
Holt McCallany as Patrick "Lights" Leary
On March 14, 2011 I had the wonderful opportunity of participating in a conversation with Warren Leight and Holt McCallany, Executive Producer/Showrunner and star, respectively, of FX’s breakout hit series, Lights Out. Not only did they talk about the current season, but they both provided some insight into what we could expect should there be a season 2.
This was probably the most exciting call I’ve been on and I didn’t get a word in edgewise. Listening to Warren Leight and Holt McCallany speak was enough for me. I really felt McCallany’s love of boxing and respect for his character Patrick “Lights” Leary. McCallany had nothing but the nicest things to say about his co-stars and he was really funny doing impressions of some of the real life boxers he’s spoken with about the show. If you follow me on Twitter (@ellemoe)—which I’m sure you do—you would have gotten a few snippets of the conversation to see exactly what I mean. The camaraderie between Leight and McCallany was very evident. Specifically when Holt is asked about his training for the role, Leight responds, “I trained him.”
McCallany on his preparation for the role of “Lights” Leary:
“Yes, I was in Gleason’s Gym in Brooklyn, I was watching Warren Leight up in the ring one day and he knocked out this journeyman heavyweight and I thought to myself, “Wow, if my showrunners have got that kind of punching power maybe I am really with the right guys.”
No—yes, I love boxing and boxing has always been my favorite sport. I was always into it and I boxed recreationally, all of my life. I always wanted to play a boxer because some of my favorite films as a boy were those great boxing movies, Raging Bull and Rocky and The Set Up and Fat City and Hard Times. I just loved those films and I just always wanted to play a fighter, all of my life. So, when this opportunity came along, for me, it was really like a dream come true. I have been wanting to play a character—they don’t come very often, not roles like this one.
So, yes, I’ll give you a brief answer. I had been in the gym training for many, many years but I definitely stepped it up when it was time to get into shape to play ‘Lights’. I began trying to live the life of a boxer and that means everything that you would expect. Early morning road work, in the gym every day, lots of sparring and conditioning, watching my diet. I took an amateur fight and I fought in the master’s division of USA Boxing, just because I wanted to have that experience. It’s something that I’ve been wanting to do since my brother won the Golden Gloves back in the ‘80s.
So yes, I think I really—and to be honest, not to go on and on, but that was one of the most gratifying and exciting parts of the whole process for me because I love the atmosphere of the gym. I love the camaraderie of the guys. I love the whole world of boxing and the community, the sense of community I believe exists there. I love the fact that I was going to have an opportunity to focus attention on a sport that I love in a positive way. So, I was just thrilled, thrilled to do it.”
McCallany’s discussion of the episode titled “David Morse”:
“I guess the first thing that I would say is that we were blessed with a tremendous actor David Morse in that role. He really, really created a very, very special character—I mean very, very heartbreaking and very authentic. If you hang around boxing gyms, unfortunately, it doesn’t take long before you meet guys that have taken too many punches and are in that kind of condition. What David was able to capture so beautifully was that there’s very often this sort of sweetness about them. This kind of child-like, kind of gentleness, almost an innocence about them and it’s really heartbreaking.
So I think for ‘Lights’ Leary, they’re combination of emotions at play. First of all, this is a guy that I fought. This is a guy that I admired. Larry Holmes has spoken very candidly over the years about how difficult it was for him to punish Mohammad Ali in the way that he did when they fought because Ali had been somebody that he looked up to and somebody that he really admired. I decided that that’s how I felt about the “Rainmaker.” You catch a guy at the end of his career who maybe stayed in the game a little longer than he should of and he doesn’t move as quickly as he used to and he becomes easy to hit. Jerry got hit a lot and now he’s in this condition that he’s in and like so many fighters, he’s broke and essentially abandoned. Boxing is not a sport where you get a pension when you retire at the end of your career. So I have all of these things— I suppose, on a certain level I feel a measure of culpability. I feel a tremendous amount of empathy and I also feel a great deal of apprehension because I don’t want to end up like him.”
Leight’s general feeling of “Lights” Leary:
“I think that ‘Lights’ is a hero as opposed to an antihero. I like that it can be gray. I love going—I go to my preschool drop-off and the moms are debating it every week …, so there’s room for debate. But I think he has a big heart, it’s generally in the right place, but he’s in a terrible bind. Early on in the season and again in this episode you see him do something that you know— I think one way that you know a guy is a decent guy is there’s regret for his action, right. I think we’ll get a sense for his regret. If you stick with the series to the finale there’s a beat where you understand he is aware of the compromises and the tradeoff’s he made to get to the finale, to get to the Death Row rematch.
I think he’s a good guy in a terrible situation who has a fighter’s way out when he needs to and he can think strategically under stress. Sometimes he pulls a trigger he knows will get him to the next round but it’s—he throws a punch, he knows it’ll get him to the next round but he’s not proud of it. We definitely wanted, with the David Morse character, a sense of ‘Lights’ is also aware this is one possible future for him, a ghost of Christmas future we talked about in the writer’s room.”
Leight on FX’s promotion of the show:
“I think that the push early on was strong. We saw Holt’s mug everywhere. I wasn’t one of those showrunners who go around gripping about why aren’t they doing enough to promote the show. Holt’s mug—I couldn’t get on the subway, I couldn’t walk on the street without seeing Holt’s faces, which was of course, Holt, a tremendous pleasure for me.
In hindsight, would I like to have a larger audience with more women and would women have come to the show more easily? It’s a second guess. I do know that when I talk to women, they came to the show at the behest of their husbands or at somebody telling them to watch it not because they were initially attracted to what they perceived the premise of the show to be. It was the strongest way to lead with the show coming out of the box.
I think that FX has in fact has since the premiere retooled some of the promos to show that the show—clearly it’s not just a boxing show. This is, I think, a big canvas to write and produce and depict a family drama on and about a family up against it the way a lot of families are now. So I think that switch occurred. I guess the other thing I would say is I feel enough gratitude to these guys because the show wouldn’t be as good as I immodestly think it is if they hadn’t put it—these guys know how to put shows together. So I’m grateful to them for that. Do I wish more people are watching more initially and now? Yes, sure.”
Leight on actor Billy Brown who plays Death Row Reynolds:
“Well finding him was hard because I needed to find somebody who you could legitimately believe has been heavyweight champion of the world for five years and no one’s laid a glove on him. You need somebody in immediate and overt great shape who has physicality and can act. I didn’t want and we didn’t want to do a sort of a stock villain, maybe people framed him that way in the beginning of the show, but each week you get another layer peeled off of this guy. There’s a lot going on with Death Row. He’s a sophisticated guy with some early issues that are still affected his choices. So, I needed a guy—the same problems I think … trying to find someone to play ‘Lights’ trying to find someone to play Death Row.
Billy was a gift and I remember it was an audition tape watching it on the computer scan and I thought, “Okay we’re done.” I just felt extreme relief when his audition came in because there are a lot of guys who look good who can’t act and a lot of good actors who you just don’t believe for a second would last 15 rounds or 12 rounds in a ring with me. But I had to work on his muscles and all that, get the training right for him, but other than that I think he was in pretty—it was a gift to get a guy like that. I think he was thrilled to be asked to do—as the character evolved, I think he was afraid that it was just going to be this sort of stock maybe an Apollo Creed kind of guy. His character has some dimension and every time we gave Billy more, he just ran with it. It was kind of great to watch.
You don’t like him at all right Holt?”
McCallany’s response:
“There aren’t enough superlatives in the English language for me to describe this actor. I think that this is an actor that literally has it all. I mean he’s got a great intelligence and humor and depth. He has a tremendous work ethic and he’s a joy to be around.
From day one when I called him up and I said, “Hey, listen man, it looks like you and me are going to have to dance, so let’s get into the gym and start working.” This was a guy that didn’t have a boxing background. Obviously, he’s a very gifted athlete who’s in just like super, phenomenal physical condition, but he committed to the work and to the training with such enthusiasm and with such dedication that I have to say, I fancy myself a hard worker and I’ve got to tell you I was so impressed with this guy. I just continue to be more impressed with him the longer that I work with him. I really think the sky is the limit for this actor. There’s nothing that this guy can’t accomplish in this business.”
Leight’s response:
“The finale is Holt and Billy—I think it’s worth it to point out most of our fight scenes have been shot in one day. That one we had the luxury of actually two days. So it’s amazing what these guys do in that amount of time, 14 hour days and just going at it. It’s not the way film scenes are shot in the movies. It’s really bloodier. We just don’t have the time; they have to hit their mark.”
Leight and McCallany on Season 2 and bringing back characters:
W. Leight “Yes, I think that by the time we got there we’ve already figured out his arch, but I have plans for Season 2. I remain optimistic. Part of the reason we’re doing this call today is to say we’re still punching and there’s still four great episodes left. If there’s a Season 2, we invite Eamonn back. I haven’t told Holt about it but there’s a clear role for Eamonn in Season 2. Bas, I’d take any chance I could get. That guy—just to watch him beat the … out of Pablo Schreiber was thrilling.”
H. McCallany “I think he wants to be a good guy if he comes back …”
W. Leight “Well, we have talked about—”
H. McCallany “ ‘Can I be a good guy?’ He keeps asking me. I said, “I don’t know, Bas. I’ll have to run that up the flag pole.” But both of those guys that you mentioned for different reasons are—they really brought a lot to the parts that they played this season. The reaction to Eamonn Walker’s performance was so positive. People just loved that character and our relationship and we work so beautifully together. Bas is an exciting guy. He’s an exciting athlete, an exciting actor and whenever he’s on film, you’ve got to watch him. Personally, I would love to work with those guys again.”
Leight/McCallany on a tag line for the second season if there is a second season and what to expect:
W. Leight “I don’t have a tag line but wait a couple weeks. I think what we’re talking about for the second season in broad strokes is once you get there now what. I guess it would be, “Now what?” If you remember when Redford gets elected president—what movie is that, Holt?”
H. McCallany “The Candidate?”
W. Leight “The Candidate. I think it’s like what the hell comes next for this guy? I don’t want to say too much because if people haven’t seen the finale, I don’t want to spoiler alert it, but what happens to a guy—even though he’s entered the boxing world, one of the realities of it for a guy like this is a $10 million purse by the time Barry Word takes half of it. By the time, the IRS takes a large swig of it. It’s not like he’s set. It’s not like—$10 million an average boxer takes home less than the average—the take home is probably something like, it can be less than 15%. Some of the guys we’ve talked to talked about $100,000 purses and they took home $7,000. So, he’s not out of the hole he’s in completely. He’s also aware that he’s made a couple of deals with devils in order to get to where he gets at the end of the season and I don’t think he brought a long enough spoon, if you remember those old quotes. I think he’s in deep with some bad guys as the season ends.
I think it’s always interesting to see what happens to the rest of your family when your status changes. What happens to Johnny? What happens to the gym? When I was brought in, there was a sort of a pilot that wasn’t fully successful and no one knew where the season would go. Now everyone goes, “Well, this season was obvious.” I think Season 2, if we do it right, about midway through everybody will go, “Well, this was obvious,” but right now it’s about getting to a Season 2.
I think we’ve also talked a little bit about the possibility of introducing MMA into Season 2 and that’s an interesting place for the show to go. ‘Lights’ status amongst boxers changes as the season goes on and that’s another place we would think about going.”
McCallany on “Lights” priorities with his families:
“I think that he is definitely a guy that is conflicted on a certain level and probably this guy would have been happier living in a neighborhood that he grew up in, in Bayonne, New Jersey, in a house down the street from his dads place, but he’s got the McMansion. He loves his wife and children more than anything in the world, but you can take the boy out of Bayonne, but you can’t take Bayonne out of the boy, if that makes any sense. So where is my heart? It’s in two places.”
Leight on Theresa and her relationship with Lights:
“What we didn’t want was a stock relationship and I don’t think we have one. I don’t think it’s a predictable relationship. It’s not a Leave It to Beaver time. She’s just not a stock wife. At this point in the season, she’s going in for it but I think we know her well enough to know that she just can’t play along. She can’t be the perfect sports wife and ‘Lights’ probably didn’t want to marry that one. No one in ‘Lights’ life is easy. Why would his wife be easy? She’s supportive. She’s there when he needs them. What’s kind of interesting to me with her is when the chips are down, when he’s in legal trouble, when you think she should just hammer him, that’s when she pulls the wagon in the circle and figures out strategy with him.
So I think they’re bonded. I think they’re enmeshed, but it’s not a healthy relationship. They don’t deal—he hid so much from her. I know everyone loves Holt and loves ‘Lights’, but he was lying to her for an awful long time and once you have that level of dishonesty in a relationship that poison just doesn’t go away. She’s got other things on her plate now. You’ll see the episode that Nick Gomez directed that airs tomorrow night, she’s graduating from medical school. They’re in two different worlds and it would be interesting to see how the marriage can sustain the stress of the build up to the fight and then the post-fight, reaction. I think that’s all stuff to watch. I think what it is, is an honest depiction of a complicated relationship. I don’t think it’s a perfect relationship and I think that’s more interesting.”
Stayed tuned for the second half of this fantastic call with Warren Leight and Holt McCallany of Lights Out.
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